carbine 12221

[arttodd3]

I would be terribly disappointed in RIA if they did not make the questions and concerns of some highly respected collector community members known to their prospective bidders. Especially for an item that is estimated by them to bring $65 to $110K. This issue sort of becomes an ethics test for the auction house!

[Dick Hosmer]

I would be terribly disappointed in RIA if they did not make the questions and concerns of some highly respected collector community members known to their prospective bidders. Especially for an item that is estimated by them to bring $65 to $110K. This issue sort of becomes an ethics test for the auction house!

I agree. We shall see what happens. FWIW, they have not yet replied - not surprisingly because there are several angles to this. Tens of thousands of dollars, and weighty commissions hang in the balance. What do they tell the consignor? What can he do - if anything is even possible - with the party he got it from? If it was Trapdoors Galore, he is sh*t outta luck. I doubt that my name is held in very high esteem at RIA just now, having upset the apple cart... We will see, but in the end it's my word against theirs. I doubt that anyone has archived the TG sales posts.

[Dick Hosmer]

Just re-read Tom Trevor's post. I cannot comment on HOW it became a cadet. My guess would be somewhere outside of SA, perhaps Bannerman, possibly even Keith himself. I do not recall any of the particlars of the rifle itself from the TG sales ad, just the number. Remember he frequently bragged about making whole guns from his huge stash of parts.

[jeffd]

If I remember correctly, the Las Vegas connection was selling cartouche stamps.

[Dick Hosmer]

If I remember correctly, the Las Vegas connection was selling cartouche stamps.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least - would have fitted right in with his MO. I know they were all over Ebay at one time.

[carlsr]

I believe he is the one who put together my 1884 "composite" rod bayonet???

[Dick Hosmer]

I believe he is the one who put together my 1884 "composite" rod bayonet???

His middle name was "composite" - nothing was beneath him. Shoulda seen the BS he threw out about that fake carbine that I went to court on.

I'll give him one thing; his sales photos were masterpieces of innuendo - always managed to crop out that last inch that would show fish or fowl (foul) to someone who knew what they were looking at/for.

[khannon]

Reading this thread made me wonder: Assume for the sake of argument that 12221 is a legitimate carbine receiver that was present at LBH (though the suggestion that some clerk back in the 19th century made a transcription error would always make me wonder!):

How much more valuable would that receiver be worth on its own as a witness to the battle vs. a comparably conditioned receiver that had no such provenance?

[Dick Hosmer]

I take your point, but then at what level do we (or do we ever) stop wondering? That concern is omnipresent, affecting EVERY collectible weapon on the planet, so, to my way of thinking, it should be ignored. This was a very specific case involving a very well-recorded number.

As an aside, just in case anyone should think I have a hard-on for RIA, or was just bad-mouthing for the fun of it, this "carbine" was specifically addressed by number in my 2017 book, long before its' new configuration was openly conformed/revealed.

[Tom Trevor]

This post has served its purpose. If you are a serious buyer for this carbine all you have to do is Google search" carbine 12221" and this is the first stop. Now they can decide for themselves how much to spend if anything.