Trapdoor Rifles

I picked up two new ones today.
First one is an 1884 Ramrod Bayonet Rifle.Ser# 533276. Stock has a rack number B-34 and stamped on the right side is " 65TH REGS NY" Cartouche is 1891

The second one is an 1873 Catbine. Ser#205157. It was listed as professionally restored. It looks good shows obviously new case hardening look to it. C marked sight. Cartouche looks like 1883 or 18888. Again since it said restored, I have no idea what is correct or original to it. I bought this one to hunt with.
Hopefully pic link works. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks!

https://imgur.com/a/Xp8mD7H

Serial number 205157 not listed, and although there are a lot of numbers, but not huge amount on either side of that, there are no carbines listed within 1000 numbers either side.

If the carbine does NOT have star after the serial number it has problems.

Serial number 533276 is not listed, but quite a few Model 1888 rifles are listed nearby, mostly noted with New York state units in the Spanish American War.

New York was very active in neatly marking their arms, but that mostly took place prior to the call up in April 1898. At the time, NY had a convoluted system for National Guard units, with many full Regiments, and a whole lot of "Separate Companies." Most marks will be related to those units.

However during the 1898 mobilization NY did not send its existing units, but new units, some of which were basically the existing unit but now under federal jurisdiction, and others as regiments cobbled together from various Separate Companies under an existing name or a new designation entirely. For the latter type units you will sometimes find both the earlier unit marks with a 1898 mobilization unit marking added.

The 65th served honorably and went where they were ordered. But that did not take them outside of the continental U.S.
The great folks at https://SpanAmWar.com have unit histories for just about every American regular or volunteer unit, including the 65th.
https://www.spanamwar.com/65thNewYork.htm

Camp Alger was near Dunn Loring, which is west of Falls Church in Fairfax County, VA. It was basically a 1,400 acre farm leased for the camp. (I don;t know who the owners were, or how they got the contract, but skulduggery is not impossible.)
Here is a link to a map showing the camp and location of the various units. It may be possible to overlay this on a modern map and find the location, but urban sprawl has devoured most of that area, and while there may be some historical markers or something, I am sure the camp site is totally changed.
https://collections.library.yale.edu/catalog/15832251

I will follow up with a post with more info on the 65th and Camp Alger. Not a fun spot for a summer vacation playing soldier.

I have M1888 rifle serial number 534237 marked with a large 65 over 205 on the right side of the butt, and prepared the following for that.

The regiment was augmented by the addition of the 13th Separate Company from Jamestown. On May 17th, 1898 the unit was designated the “65th Regiment Infantry, New York Vols.” and mustered into service at Camp Black, NY.

- The 65th Regiment left Camp Black on May 19th arriving at Falls Church, VA on May 21st.
- The 65th Regiment remained in the general vicinity of Camp Alger throughout the summer until it was ordered to return to Buffalo on September 4th, 1898.
- The regiment was eventually mustered out on November 19th, 1898.

Camp Alger, VA
- The major enemies the 65th faced were disease and boredom. A fringe of saloons, restaurants, gambling dens and worse opened around the camp, tempting many of the bored, frustrated men.
- Conditions in Camp Alger began to deteriorate from overcrowding, lack of sanitary conditions, etc. Supplies could not be delivered by rail, since the rail lines ended some distance from the camp.
- Men had to march seven miles to bathe. Typhoid broke out. The conditions in the camp began to attract the interest of the newspapers, and, combined with the terrible conditions in other camps, became a national disgrace. In mid-August, Camp Alger had over 23,500 men.
- The 65th returned to Buffalo on September 6, and basically remained in quarantine until mustered out November 19, 1898. Reportedly guards had to be posted to keep the soldiers in the camps to avoid spreading typhoid and other diseases.
- During its term of service, the 65th New York lost 17 men dead from disease, 23 discharged for reasons of disability, two men court-martialed, and twelve men deserted.

Thanks John for all the information and the links for the 65th. Those soldiers had to be miserable in those conditions, wow!

Tom, there is no star after the serial number. I figured since it said "professionally restored " it would be far from correct. I hope it is at least a carbine. I wanted an older, not new modern model, to hunt with. The bore looks great, so hopefully it will get the job done.
I have a 33K carbine I posted on here a while back, it's one of the (SPF, State Police Force) Pennsylvania State Police issued. I don't want to hunt with it.
The one problem is, this carbine has to get inline behind my Burnside carbine. But I do have an extra tag this year!
I certainly appreciate the information on this forum.

Tom Trevor wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:45 am If the carbine does NOT have star after the serial number it has problems.

Hasn't been mentioned here for awhile, but when assessing whether or not a number should have a star, it must be bourne in mind that the star was applied at the same time as the numbers, so that when assembling the starred pieces (nearly all carbines) the receivers were pulled from a "special" bin, other than the usual FILO (first in last out) process from multiple bins. One of the points to consider is that SA did not have a single rigid "assembly line" as we see today. Sure, they had a general system/process but did NOT make the arms in rigid order.