Double cartouches

[Lead Snowstorm]

Hi all - stumbled across a minor curiosity and was interested to get some expert thoughts on it. It’s a carbine (ETA from the early 1880s timeframe, don’t have exact production date in front of me) with the 1890 updated sight-protecting barrel band, and also with an extra 1890-dated cartouche in addition to the still-visible original. The breechblock has also been changed to an 1884 date.

Anecdotally the upgraded carbines I’ve seen typically have their old breechblocks and replacement stocks without acceptance cartouches. Does the apparent need for a new breechblock explain why it would have been restamped?

Finally, were there any changes to the saddle rings themselves? The ring on this carbine is a bit beefier than usual.

Sorry for no good photos/measurements, as this carbine is not mine.

[Fred Gaarde]

I’ve seen that carbine and am wondering about it too.
I do like the look of it.
After recently breaking my left arm, I cannot use it to hold the forearm of my rifles.
However I’ll bet I could handle and shoulder and shoot a carbine with one arm.
It’s a moot point though as I haven’t fired a trapdoor for around 50 years.

[Fred Gaarde]

Is the trigger guard Bow on backwards from what a carbine would be?

[Dick Hosmer]

There were two thicknesses of the ring and bar, thin at first, later made thicker aound 1877. Of course, it could be a repro - would need measurements and a closer look. That appears, at least from the info provided, to be a pretty nice representative carbine - and at a rather attractive price.

[Lead Snowstorm]

Thanks all! It is on the way to its new home and I will have some pictures of it to post up when it gets here.

I went through some closed GB listings and found another carbine, from LSB, with a similar double cartouche, though that one was so sanded they were almost gone.

Both that carbine and this, on a preliminary survey, appear to have been early 80’s guns with replacement 1884 blocks, serrated triggers, and the 1890 band. I am going to try and keep my eyes open to see if some other double-cartouched carbines appear, and what they have in common.

[Fred Gaarde]

Wow! That’s an excellent Carbine and Hiway Robbery!!!

[Lead Snowstorm]

My lighting was not the best (in the middle of a move), but I did get a few pics today. I think the cartouches will benefit from a very gentle cleaning/oiling.



























Very glad to have stumbled across this one. I've been wanting a carbine with the 1890 upgrades to provide a bookend, of sorts, to my early 1873 carbine. I'm thinking this one languished because the ad didn't mention '1873,' '1884,' or even 'carbine' - it was listed as a Springfield Armory 1879 Trapdoor .45-70, not necessarily the first (or second, or third) search terms I'd use to find these carbines. Anyway, they gave me an extra discount, so I snagged it for $1350, a pretty decent price considering the block case colors and the stock free of cracks and with visible cartouches.

[Dick Hosmer]

Congratulations - glad it found a good home - and DEFINITELY a good deal. I don't recall seeing that chip by the buttplate, but some dark stain will make it much better, if not go away, from a casual glance.

[Jim]

What is that dark spot on the breech block, in the enter of the hinge?

[Lead Snowstorm]

Spot of dried grunge I haven't gotten around to completely scrubbing off yet.



And fortunately no chip in the buttstock - just a little discoloration that does need some stain.