Four Digit number on Model 1868

[snyders08]

Hello, I recently picked up this Springfield trapdoor Model 1868 that has a four digit number “4568” on the right side. The serial number on the left side is “29567” and the date is 1870 on the breech cover. Any idea what this number on the right is supposed to be?

[Dick Hosmer]

Similar numbers, in that font, are not unknown on arms of the early 1870s. I have such a number on my Springfield Remington Navy. One thing seems clear, they are NOT serial numbers, nor, I believe have anything to do with the manufacturing process. I've seen more on Model 1870s than anything else. My GUESS is that they have something to do with "inventory" or "record-keeping" at some as-yet-unknown unit or facility. All that said, AFAIK, we do not know and likely never will. To me, they are a slight detraction - in other words given two equal guns, one with, one without, I would choose the latter...

[John S.]

I don't think anyone has shown evidence these were applied by the U.S> military.

The font used add numbers on the "right side" seem to be more of a European style. They are found on seem to fall into the categories purchased by France during the Franco-Prussian war. Since the arms purchased were not delivered in any sort of serial number sequence, or necessarily even in complete lots of the same model, it is possible (likely in my opinion) that these are serial numbers added by the French for their record keeping purposes.

Perhaps Ed Hull has some insights, based on his important research on the French sales schemes and scams. (To which I say "Good deal!" to the Ordnance folks who emptied our inventory of obsolescent arms, and especially the 10,000 USN Model 1870 (first model) rolling blocks, and made enough profit to have SA turn out 12,000 replacements for the sum!)

[gew98]

Hello, I recently picked up this Springfield trapdoor Model 1868 that has a four digit number “4568” on the right side. The serial number on the left side is “29567” and the date is 1870 on the breech cover. Any idea what this number on the right is supposed to be?

Receiver appears to be blued ?. Almost seems like vice marks on barrel like it may have been wrenched apart at one time. Is it still in 50 / 70 caliber ?.

[Dick Hosmer]

I don't think anyone has shown evidence these were applied by the U.S> military.

The font used add numbers on the "right side" seem to be more of a European style. They are found on seem to fall into the categories purchased by France during the Franco-Prussian war. Since the arms purchased were not delivered in any sort of serial number sequence, or necessarily even in complete lots of the same model, it is possible (likely in my opinion) that these are serial numbers added by the French for their record keeping purposes.

Perhaps Ed Hull has some insights, based on his important research on the French sales schemes and scams. (To which I say "Good deal!" to the Ordnance folks who emptied our inventory of obsolescent arms, and especially the 10,000 USN Model 1870 (first model) rolling blocks, and made enough profit to have SA turn out 12,000 replacements for the sum!)

I'm very fortunate to have one of the first model Navies - kinda rough, but 100% kosher. Bayonet lug intact, all SA marks and nothing added. It's my second that has the added number, on the receiver.

[Ehull]

As to any connection with arms sold to France, I know of no such right side numbers applied to model 1866 rifle muskets, thousands of which were sold to France. Also, as Dick points out, there are no such numbers on the Remington model 1870 navy rifles. IMHO, the right side numbers are not connected to French sales.

[John S.]

Ed is the expert in that area, so we can cross France off as being responsible for the added four digit numbers.

Do we know where large numbers of M1868 and M1870 trapdoors went other than France?

I doubt if they are militia additions, and the font looks European rather than American (to me, anyway).

IIRC the transcontinental railroad folks got some, but I doubt enough to get into high four digit numbers, and for the M1868s, the armory stamped numbers would probably have been sufficient for their accountability purposes.

[Dick Hosmer]

...if only they could talk...

SOMEBODY nailed more than a few guns from that period, with 4-digit numbers in that same font (I agree with you John, doesn't look 'murican somehow...)

[Tony Beck]

I've had two M-1870 trapdoors with those numbers, both 4 digit.