Features on starred serial number carbines

[Dick Hosmer]

OK Tony, now I understand your thinking - but - the star is NOT an aftermark. It was part of the initial stamp, because the numbers are set over to allow for it. On starred receivers you can read the whole number without lifting the hammer. That said, I do not know how it got on such a low number. Could be something as mundane as an un-numbered receiver found on the floor behind the coal bin at the time the stars were being run. we'll never know!

[Dick Hosmer]

Tony, I don't know why the star appears on such a low number, and then, does that mean that there are a WHOLE lot of tweeners sitting out there awaiting discovery? One thing I AM fairly sure of is that the star was stamped WITH the number at time of receiver fabrication, which would seem to negate any usage which was of the spur-of-the-moment "let's mark that completed arm" scenario. A puzzle to be sure.

[Tony Beck]

Dick, my thought, which could be way off base, was that there was some test or other Ordnance Dept. event that was coming up and Springfield wanted a way to mark the arms they made for those tests so they wouldn't make it into any regular issue. For instance, the short chamber 1 in 18 three groove rifles throated for 45-80 paper patch bullets that were tested at Sandy Hook. Maybe they made a run of starred receivers for them to prevent them ending up in the rack at Fort Wilderness, Montana after the tests. Pure speculation.....

[John S.]

A bit of added perspective on "star" markings. I believe (with no written evidence) that the star was used by Springfield, perhaps as a local initiative, or perhaps at Ordnance Department direction/approval, as a mark applied to second class arms. Or arms that were non-standard in some way.

1- I have a M1855 rifle musket, apparently cleaned and repaired post Civil War, with a star marking on the shoulder behind the barrel breech. This one appears untouched, but all the special Maynard tape parts were removed.

2- The trapdoor "star marked" guns are mostly assumed to indicate arms assembled by reusing serviceable parts from earlier guns, and to be given priority for issue to states for National Guard/militia use. Likewise, the funding is believed to have come from a different pot than new manufacture of arms.

3- I have seen one or two M1917 Enfields with the enigmatic "star". One marked on the left side a bit lower than the usual cartouche location. Other was marked on the toe of the stock between buttplate and butt swivel.

4- When star gauging of M1903 barrels began to be marked (circa 1921?) the star became more of a "turtle" marked on the muzzle, usually with an actual alpha-numeric number in a hard to access part of the barrel which supposedly corresponded with an actual "star gauge record card" noting all the measurements at intervals on the barrel.

5- When work was done to get M1 Garands ready for match use, some service rifles were star gauged and those accepted were marked with a "star" eventually on the left side of the barrel near the front sight.

So, the star may have evolved from "different, and not in a good way" to "different and specially good."

[Dick Hosmer]

I was unaware that (2) was an assumption? I thought Al had fully documented that usage - that the starred trapdoors definitely were those guns assembled "off the books" for sale/gift to State militia, etc., and were fabricated from the turned-in guns of 1879, with new receivers, barrels and stocks.

I respectfully disagree with Tony's contention - and - I believe that attempting to cover ALL uses of the "star/turtle" under one umbrella is equally fallacious, especially where lumping in "onesies" located anywhere on the arm. AFAIK the star - as it relates to TDs - was a very consistent practice with but one application. I've been told that the s/n suffix star occurs in more than one form, but I've not seen any other than the one shown in this thread.

At the very least, I think we have perhaps three distinct cases (1) The starred arms of 1881/82 (2) The "turtle" accuracy mark, and (3) EVERYTHING else, including sundry red herrings and rabbit holes. My left-hand-rifled carbine (numbered during the "star" period) has a (different) star on the INside of the lock plate - do we include that? I don't think so.

Just my $.02, YMMV

[Tony Beck]

Dick an John, I am not invested in that explanation. Just threw it out for consideration. Wish I had gotten that rifle just to see if it was different in some way, other than the repaired stock. When I went back with cash in hand, it had already sold.

[dws936]

According to "The .45-70 Springfield" by Poyer and Riesch, the significance of an asterisk (five pointed star) added to a serial number is unknown. It appears it was done at the National Armory. It has been found on rifles, carbines and cadet rifles between circa serial numbers 126,900 and 213,200 (1880-1882). A theory is that it indicated weapons rebuilt with new model receivers.

[Dick Hosmer]

Sorry, but, in that regard, Poyer & Riesch is NOT the last word. The significance of the starred arms is NOT "unknown". They were built, at Springfield, for the state militias, using those parts that they could from the guns collected in the recall of October 1879 (everything under 50,000) with new stocks, receiver assemblies, barrels, and sights. They were not recorded in the annual reports of arms produced. The VAST majority are carbines, so it is entirely possible that other configurations, especially cadets, may represent parts having been shifted later, by firms such as Bannerman, or our old friend and nemesis, "Bubba".