Trapdoor Rifles

You can definitely see the progression. I like the .50/70’s too since my focus is the Indian wars here in the Dakotas and it was used extensively . The “needle gun” reference comes up a lot in period writing and most of them are referring to the 1866’s and some 1868/70’s. The 1866’s and 68’s seemed to have gotten into civilian hands pretty early on. I have a question for you experts. I was looking at a heavy Remington rolling block sporter that looked completely original with a heavy Remington made octagon barrel but the barrel was marked 50/70 in front of the forearm. I have never seen any period arm marked that way it has alway either had no caliber marking or just a 50 or a 50 with the cartridge length. When did folks start marking the cartridge.50/70 and guns accordingly?

Fred Gaarde wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:25 am

I would think so. Neglected to mention the band when describing the Type 1. Some have it, some don't (good Lord, a 1-c !)

To me, the "Trials model" (clearly separated by having the rearward sight mounting) is NOT a "Type 1", rather just the Allin entry to the 1870 Trials. After being officially crowned the "winner" (outcome was never in doubt) there were two production runs of the THEN called "Model 1870":

The "Production Type 1" will have the sight moved forward, but retains the lower band (on early rifles) and single-shoulder rod from the 1868. A VERY few have been observed with small numbers like Fred's. Who did them is not known. The font is not the typical one from SA. I have an 1870-style barreled action (no block unfortunately) marked 77|77 at bottom center which IS in the fancy SA font. Who knows? Did they originally intend to number the guns, following the initiation of the practice with the 1868s, and then abandon the idea?

The "Production Type 2", will have the word "MODEL" on the block, the 1870 band, the newer sight notch, and the double-shouldered rod.

The Type 2 improvements probably did not all occur at once, so it's a bit of a mess, and definitely subjective. As noted, also throw in Bannerman, and Bubba. One has to make themselves happy as to what they call their guns. The foregoing is how I have rationalized mine - others may vary.

I'm happy with my "Allin" rifle and carbine, and my late Type 2 Model 1870, as they show ALL of the possible differences, but, if one wanted to go nuts, I guess you could make up a dozen or more permutations, and drive visitors to your gun-room bat-s**t crazy!!

Whitney marked at least some of the sporters they made from early Trapdoor parts with caliber markings like you describe.

That’s good info to know. I figured it was a more modern marking but clearly it was used back in the day, thanks for that picture. I’m pretty convinced this was rebarreled after comparing the markings against each other, the stamp looks like it was done after barrel finishing plus it isn’t squared to the barrel like yours is and I doubt the factory would do that. The final factor is that I discovered the corners of the receiver are nicked in a way that eludes to barrel removal. In a side note, I just picked up another model 1868 made in 1869 with a pristine bore, and really nice finish on the action and lock, I’ll have to post it up on a different thread once I get her cleaned up. I’m excited to see how she shoots.