Trapdoor Rifles

Solidleadslug wrote: ↑Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:31 pm Dick, I appreciate all your feedback about this rifle. Ive enjoy your book as well.

You're welcome - always glad to help when I can . . .

Question, where was the original no date cartouche applied on the first model 1873 infantry rifle? I saw one that had an oval cartouche inbetween the lock screw heads and was the first time I’d seen an oval cartouche or any cartouche in this location on a 73. I couldn’t make out the script but the gun was marked elsewhere as a New Jersey gun.

An 1873 stock with a stamp between the lock screws would be highly unusual, and I'd suspect it to be the work of other than SA.

While the cartouches of earlier arms (many of which used recycled CW wood) were on the flat, in (up to) four distinct areas, when the '73 was adopted they went to just one, in the "normal" position behind the rear lock screw, with ESA in a small oval or "rounded rectangle". In 1877, the mark was changed to a true ellipse and included the date. In order were: (ESA/1877) (ESA/1878) (ESA/1879) (SWP/1879). Next came the familiar larger rectangle with clipped corners in form [SWP/date] from 1879 to end of production. The 1879-dated arms are seldom encountered.

The 1800 rifles altered to cadets in 1895 bear [JSA/1895] in a new location, just BELOW the rear lock screw.

Other marks are seen, including a different, sharper-pointed "football" shaped ellipse with a script "P" and no date. This latter mark is seen in the usual location, but is still a matter of some controversy. A very few non-Hotchkiss long-range stocks bear the small CW era [SWP], again in the "normal" location. In some cases where arms were returned to SA, then reissued, a second cartouche will be applied immediately to the right of the first. For example, my M1884XRB has [SWP/1885][SWP/1887].

I'm sure there ARE other permutations, but not all are completely understood.

When I saw it, it definitely struck me as odd. The gun had all the early features and was heavily marked with painted state markings and a NJ stamped on the barrel. I wonder if it was a NJ stock cartouche? Has anyone seen such a creature? I’m a sucker for state marked guns and those marking are what drew me to the rifle. There’s a whole mostly unexplored world of state markings.

Texcl2 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 5:01 pm When I saw it, it definitely struck me as odd. The gun had all the early features and was heavily marked with painted state markings and a NJ stamped on the barrel. I wonder if it was a NJ stock cartouche? Has anyone seen such a creature? I’m a sucker for state marked guns and those marking are what drew me to the rifle. There’s a whole mostly unexplored world of state markings.

I have seen several NJ marked rifle's along with one carbine which I have.
The barrel is usually stamped N.J. just ahead of the receiver and I have seen the stock cartouche between the lock screws along with being next to the original cartouche.
My carbine has the NJ cartouche just ahead of the original SWP/1881 cartouche.
It is a stared carbine updated for the SAW. Not really sure if the NJ markings were added before or after being updated for the SAW as I've been unable to find any information on it.

That’s the cartouche I saw, thanks for the pictures. Interesting the federal cartouche is gone on the rifle I saw but the NJ one was very pronounced.