Trapdoor Rifles

I received my first two Trapdoors two days ago. Bought off GB.
One is a 1893 Cadet and the other is a 1891 Rod rifle.
Questions:
I am looking to buy the tools for the Rod Rifle. Can someone point me in the right direction?

And I just read in Poyer/Riesch the the cadet used the 45-55. I think that was also used in the Carbine.
Is a 45-70 safe to shoot in a cadet rifle?

6 Ring wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 3:41 pm . . . . .
Is a 45-70 safe to shoot in a cadet rifle?

YES . . . .PROVIDED . . . .
You use the “low-pressure” Cowboy loads such as Black Hills cartridges.
They use lead bullets . . . .though the jacketed mild loads that Remington and Winchester use will do no harm either.

Action strength, and chambering are identical between ALL TD models of a given period. Rifle loads were sometimes used in the carbine to extend the range a bit. Use of the rifle loads did increase felt recoil, and this would be true of the cadet as well with its' narrower buttplate. Other than that any ammo marked "For all rifles" is loaded to TD pressure levels. You need to stay away from anything made for the 1886 Winchester, 1895 Marlin, and Ruger #1.

Thank-You Sirs for the quick answers.
One more question, My rod rifle SN 524,2xx with 1891 stamp has a 1873 Breech Block, so I assume it is a replacement.
I put grease on the rear of the receiver and closed the breech block. No grease was on the breech block when I opened it. This tells me they are not in contact. I understand the rear of the breech block transfers the recoil force to the back of the receiver. If they are not in contact, how can this occur?

To finish your question. The parts for the trap are a headless shell extractor, 1979 combination tool, and tulip tip for rod. Sand S in New York will have these but the tulip they have will be a reproduction as originals are very hard to find and expensive.

I have bought several tulip heads from S&S that are originals. What you do is go to ssfirearms.com then gun parts then rifle/carbine parts then trapdoor then 1873-1889 Springfield 45/70. This will take you to all parts they have available. The original tulip tip is listed almost at the end. Click on the listing then the notify me when back in stock. They will email you when and if they get another. I have gotten 3 this way and yes, I paid the listed price of 50.00 for them.
You can also go to mcpheetersantiquemilitaria.com, go to gun tools, bullet molds and parts. He has one for 165.00 and that's just for the tulip
He must have raised his price as it was 150.00 a few weeks ago.
I have been lucky enough to acquire a set for all 6 of my rod bayonets and an extra set for that 1890 manufactured rod bayonet when and if I find a nice one.

Dick Hosmer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:11 pm Action strength, and chambering are identical between ALL TD models of a given period. Rifle loads were sometimes used in the carbine to extend the range a bit. Use of the rifle loads did increase felt recoil, and this would be true of the cadet as well with its' narrower buttplate. Other than that any ammo marked "For all rifles" is loaded to TD pressure levels. You need to stay away from anything made for the 1886 Winchester, 1895 Marlin, and Ruger #1.

You may also want to stay away from jacketed bullets and only use lead. Some may argue this but jacketed bullets may damage the rifling.

carlsr wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 12:20 pm I have bought several tulip heads from S&S that are originals. What you do is go to ssfirearms.com then gun parts then rifle/carbine parts then trapdoor then 1873-1889 Springfield 45/70. This will take you to all parts they have available. The original tulip tip is listed almost at the end. Click on the listing then the notify me when back in stock. They will email you when and if they get another. I have gotten 3 this way and yes, I paid the listed price of 50.00 for them.
You can also go to mcpheetersantiquemilitaria.com, go to gun tools, bullet molds and parts. He has one for 165.00 and that's just for the tulip
He must have raised his price as it was 150.00 a few weeks ago.
I have been lucky enough to acquire a set for all 6 of my rod bayonets and an extra set for that 1890 manufactured rod bayonet when and if I find a nice one.

I view McPheeter's site more as a source of entertainment/amusement than anything else - I doubt that he ever sells very much. SIX RBs, and looking for more? You are the man.

Dick Hosmer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:27 pm

carlsr wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 12:20 pm I have bought several tulip heads from S&S that are originals. What you do is go to ssfirearms.com then gun parts then rifle/carbine parts then trapdoor then 1873-1889 Springfield 45/70. This will take you to all parts they have available. The original tulip tip is listed almost at the end. Click on the listing then the notify me when back in stock. They will email you when and if they get another. I have gotten 3 this way and yes, I paid the listed price of 50.00 for them.
You can also go to mcpheetersantiquemilitaria.com, go to gun tools, bullet molds and parts. He has one for 165.00 and that's just for the tulip
He must have raised his price as it was 150.00 a few weeks ago.
I have been lucky enough to acquire a set for all 6 of my rod bayonets and an extra set for that 1890 manufactured rod bayonet when and if I find a nice one.

I view McPheeter's site more as a source of entertainment/amusement than anything else - I doubt that he ever sells very much. SIX RBs, and looking for more? You are the man.

His prices are somewhat high Dick and apparently he may sell as some items do get marked sold
Triangular rod bayonet, 1884 (composite) RB, 1889 experimental RB, 2 1891 manufactured RB and an 1893 manufactured RB. The 1891 and 93 are my shooters. It was my goal to have one from each year so I need an 1890 and 92. Would be nice to have an 1888 dated RB but I was lucky to find the 1889 RB. It was originally an 1884 RB issued to Co. L, 16th Infantry 08/31/86. Then made into an 88 trials RB and its final re Arsenal to the model 1888 RB. It has the experimental rod but the latching mechanism was changed to the updated version as on all those to follow. There’s information on these rifles in Al’s news letters. Just before he retired there was another sold on his site but not as good condition as mine. I’ll have to post a few pictures.

On the firing load question, the load is taken by the locking cam, not the back face of the breechblock. The base of the cam (attached to the opening lever) rides against a surface machined into the back of the block. You can see it if you remove the cam latch plate and latch assembly from the block. The other end of the cam mates with the cut in the breech screw at the back of the receiver. The pivot points are arranged so that firing loads actually tend to force the cam into the locked position. You will notice that both the cam latch assembly and the breech block pivot are quite loose. This is done on purpose so that only the cam itself takes firing loads. The trapdoor action is intrinsically pretty strong. However, no one understood the importance of headspace, so most Trapdoors have a lot of it, which increases firing loads on the action. Hence low pressure "Trapdoor" ammunition.