Trapdoor Rifles

A question has come up on Facebook regarding the very-seldom seen "script P in ellipse" stamping in place of the usual (ESA/date).

I know I have seen something on this but cannot recall what/where. Fifty years ago, I even owned one. The name Richard Shurtleff comes to mind - I THINK he might have been a "temporary/emergency" inspector. Aside from the odd mark, the rifle appears normal, 1879 period, and has the proper (P) behind the guard.

Anyone recall what the real answer is?

397 views and nobody has ANYTHING to say?

Sorry Dick but no idea on the cartouche
I looked through the news letters but nothing there other than a S.W.P. in a box over an ESA cartouche. I think Al wrote that he had only seen a total of 3 in the 93000 range.
I do remember seeing something about the cartouche you're talking about but not sure where, it might have been in the old board??
Are you able to copy and paste a photo here?

Thanks Carl - here's a picture - should have put it in my original post. I believe it IS period*, but NOT sure if authentic SA, and if it was, exactly what it was supposed to signify).

*I have nothing but contempt for those who sell, and who apply, spurious stamps to old guns - who are they fooling? Do they also manipulate themselves in front of a mirror wearing flip-flops and light coat of salad oil?

No idea on who did this stamp, but it looks old and period to me.
My main guess would be one of the surplus guys like Bannerman or SHG.
Second would be a mark applied to a gun sold off to foreign service at some point. Highly likely if it were among the .50 caliber arms shipped to France for the Franco-Prussian war, but a long shot for .45-70s.

Dick Hosmer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:58 am Thanks Carl - here's a picture - should have put it in my original post. I believe it IS period*, but NOT sure if authentic SA, and if it was, exactly what it was supposed to signify).

*I have nothing but contempt for those who sell, and who apply, spurious stamps to old guns - who are they fooling? Do they also manipulate themselves in front of a mirror wearing flip-flops and light coat of salad oil?

P in ellipse.jpg

Thanks for posting the photo Dick. As John S said it does look old but I’ve not seen a Bannerman rifle with that cartouche although I have seen many with the popular 1884 dated lock
I know I heard about that cartouche somewhere before but just can’t remember where, old age is getting old

We're in the same boat Carl, and at least one of us needs to remember to bail . . . .

Dick Hosmer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 5:07 pm We're in the same boat Carl, and at least one of us needs to remember to bail . . . .