Trapdoor Rifles

This weekend is the show I look forward to all year!!
The Original Baltimore Antique Arms Show held at the Maryland State Fairgrounds Cow Plaza.
If you've never attended this show it's a must visit!!
I've got my fingers crossed again hoping to find that elusive M1870 type I rifle. I figure if I'll ever find one it will be at this show
If you're close by come check it out, you'll have a great time!!

What are the characteristics of a type 1 rifle? I have an a few 50-70 trapdoors and they all look similar other than the sight arrangments.

Solidleadslug wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:44 pm What are the characteristics of a type 1 rifle? I have an a few 50-70 trapdoors and they all look similar other than the sight arrangments.

On the type I the rear sight is up against the receiver as on the M1868 but with the short receiver. It has the single shoulder cleaning rod, thumb latch is rounded only on the hammer side and the breech block is marked 1870 without the word Model. The top of the breech block is also centered with the hinge pin.
The stock has the ski slope on the left side with only 3 cartouche marks and a boxed L behind the trigger guard.
I have a type III which has a space between the receiver and rear sight, breech block has model 1870 and the top of the block is below center of the hinge pin so that it will open past center.
It also has the double shoulder cleaning rod.
I have seen a few type II rifles which have the single shoulder rods which is the only difference between the type III.
Does this sound like one of your 50/70’s ?

Solidleadslug wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:44 pm What are the characteristics of a type 1 rifle? I have an a few 50-70 trapdoors and they all look similar other than the sight arrangments.

Not to butt in, but I'm comfortable with the following:

Allin for 1870 Trials: Like Type one except sight is TIGHT to receiver as on 1868s (1000 rifles/300+ carbines)
Type 1: Short receiver, thin-deck block, NO "Model" on block, sight @ 7/16", SINGLE-shouldered cleaning rod
Type 2: same, except HAS "Model", and the DOUBLE-shouldered rod.

The changes between Types 1 and 2 may not have taken place simultaneously, so it's kind of a subjective thing. I have chosen to collect them as stated. The last thing we need, even though they'd be genuine, is a 1A and/or a 1B. Then throw Bannerman into the mix, and the doodoo gets deeper!

I can now add my type 4 made in I believe the last quarter of 1873.
Made with all the characteristics of a type 3 but with a new made stock with one ESA cartouche, circle P proof and the early 1st type M73 cleaning rode.
Just a little more dodoo Dick

The 1870’s must be pretty rare, I see plenty of 1870 made model 1868’s but nary a model 1870. My father and I used to hit the Maryland shows back in the 90’s when I was a teen. I would love to be able to go back and hit one more gun show with him. Very good times and the east coast had lots of variety, you never knew what you were going to go home with, lol. Lots of older stuff in great shape compared to the Midwest where most pre-1898 guns are generally pretty beat up. Good hunting!

Texcl2 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:56 am The 1870’s must be pretty rare, I see plenty of 1870 made model 1868’s but nary a model 1870. My father and I used to hit the Maryland shows back in the 90’s when I was a teen. I would love to be able to go back and hit one more gun show with him. Very good times and the east coast had lots of variety, you never knew what you were going to go home with, lol. Lots of older stuff in great shape compared to the Midwest where most pre-1898 guns are generally pretty beat up. Good hunting!

Well, they only made about 12,000 of them, all told, which isn't really a lot, compared with those types made before and after. Some people will tell you that ALL 1868/70 .50-70 stocks were cut for the long receiver, but that is incorrect - some, probably only a very few, were 1870 specific - the inletting style, tooling marks, etc. is IDENTICAL, just shorter. I personally saw it with my own eyes. Somewhere in my morass I have a comparative photo taken by the friend who owned it.

Very interesting how subtle the changes are. I wonder if the arsenal decided on these changes or received feedback from the feild. I think the most interesting trapdoors are the 1866 through 1870. Very early In the indian wars and (to me) the most attractive trapdoors.

There are several statues where I live ( olympia washington) in graveyards featuring trapdoor rifles. They feature 3rd allen 50-70 trapdoors with musket style rear sights.

Solidleadslug wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 11:52 pm Very interesting how subtle the changes are. I wonder if the arsenal decided on these changes or received feedback from the feild. I think the most interesting trapdoors are the 1866 through 1870. Very early In the indian wars and (to me) the most attractive trapdoors.

There are several statues where I live ( olympia washington) in graveyards featuring trapdoor rifles. They feature 3rd allen 50-70 trapdoors with musket style rear sights.

Yes, indeed. One thing though, the term "3rd Allin" is generally eschewed by most collectors, on the basis that both the M1865s and M1866s actually existed as guns, before being broken down and converted. It may be a subtle difference, but the M1868 really was made new as to action, barrel, and stock. Granted they used a number of CW-era parts, most notably the lock, but the overall arm was most certainly not a "conversion" or "alteration."
I think the 1866, particularly the action, is probably the most graceful of all the trapdoors.

A very early production run 1870?
The rod has a single shoulder.
The rear barrel band has a screw like on an 1868.