Just bought my second trapdoor. An 1873 mod. Manufactured in 1881 with stock cartouche and “N.J.” Stamped into the side of the receiver. I got it along with a NJ marked belt and cartridge box also marked NJ. Having what (at least I believe) to be a NJ militia Trapdoor rig, I found a socket bayonet in a “N.J.” Marked scabbard on eBay and just had to have it.
It arrived today and I cleaned it up and went to put it on my rifle…no go
The inside of the socket mics out to .698 at the rear and .681 at the front. Too small for a .73+ .45-70 barrel.
Started reading and measuring and I’m not sure what I have. There isn’t a marking on it. The socket is 3” which is ok I think for a trap door bayonet. But the overall length is 19.25”???, and the blade length is 16.25”????
The scabbard (which is what I really was after) seems like it is correct and is long enough to accommodate a full length trap door bayonet so I’m not too disappointed. Just wondering exactly what I have. I’ve looked thru several socket bayonet websites and can’t find one that matches the dimensions. Any ideas? Pics below.
I believe what you may have is a cadet bayonet??
I do not have a 45/70 cadet but I do have an 1869 cadet with bayonet. It is the same length but the inside socket measurement is larger being a 50/70.
I can't say why there is no U.S. stamp on the blade??
Others with more knowledge will most likely respond.
Even though 16.25" is the correct blade length for trapdoor cadet bayonets, their sockets should be the same as those for the full rifle, as the shorter barrels were reduced to the same muzzle diameter. With the lack of a US, i'm guessing what you have is not trapdoor. Did New Jersey use other arms? The best book I know of is Reilly's - not sure where my copy is just now.
Thanks for the reply. I saw the Cadet one on this site : worldbayonets. com/Bayonet_Identification_Guide/United_States__19th_Century_/
but, as you say, the ID of the socket is still to small. The only thing I saw close to that ID was some of the “Winchester Socket Bayonets”. But their other dimensions are off. Someone on another site postulated that it could be some kind of out of spec reproduction…
99% certain you have a Winchester Hotchkiss M1883 bayonet, which is virtually identical to the bayonet used on a few M1894 Winchester muskets.
These are listed in Robert M.Reilly's excellent American Socket Bayonets and Scabbards as B131. They should have an 18 inch blade, but I think yours may have been shortened. Socket length is 3 inches and bore diameter is .691. The most distinctive feature is a pronounced hump or swell at the back of the blade, while most bayonet have more of a smoothly rounded curve forward.
These M1883 Hotchkiss bayonet are seen fairly often, and usually confused with (or sold as) something else. Most appear to be unissued.
Ah, thanks for the info. I’ll do some research on that one. Are they of more/equal/or less value than 1855/1873’s? I’m guessing if it’s been shortened that destroys the collector value. May see what I can get out of it to help get a correct trapdoor one…or may use it as an excuse to hunt for a Hotchkiss rifle.. Thanks again!
In my experience, an 1855/Civil War bayonet in Nice shape will be priced at least $250.00 to $300.00. That’s just for the bayonet.
I recently paid $400.00 for an 1840 flint/1842 percussion musket bayonet with its original Nice condition scabbard. Leather brass tipped scabbards didn’t survive well like the metal 45/70 scabbards have. Thus the higher price.
Thanks again!