Cartouches on a True Short 1866

[Jimbo695]

Hi again folks. What I'm looking at has three distinct cartouches (the uppermost one in 4 characters) which i believe are present on a Springfield converted 1866 short rifle but not a Bannerman parts job. However, the second barrel bands clearly was moved up because the band spring cutout was filled in. Ideas? Thank you!!

[Dick Hosmer]

As I understand it, the correct short 66's were made on new stocks, and do NOT have the spring filler. Frank Mallory did an article on this in MAA, circa 1992. My hands were cropped out of the pictures, but I was holding the rifles side-by-side for Frank - on Graham Burnside's (longtime gun author) dining room table. That was back in the day when MAA was less critical of photo quality!!

[Tony Beck]

There was also some discussion of these in Al Frasca's Trapdoor Newsletter 20 or so years ago. Page 62 has an informative discussion. These were made at Springfield from returned 3 banders that had been fired with a bore obstruction and burst the muzzle. During the Franco-Prussian War Remington got an order from the French for 40,000 M-1866s and the buyers weren’t picky about the details. When Springfield ran out of “surplus” M-1866s to deliver to Remington, they started making up more from parts and condemned guns on hand, cutting down the three banders with burst barrels.

Since these were not regular armory products and not destined for US troops, they didn't get the regular final inspection, so there is no ESA cartouche. Only a sharp HSH (armory mechanical inspection) cartouche.

[Jimbo695]

Thanks, fellas. I wonder how three cartouches got on that one. Anyway . . . .Jim

[Hammer]

Can someone please post a picture of, or specify where, the spring filler would be located on the modified 4 band longer stocks that were cut down to a shorter 2 band stock? Is it Halfway between the two barrel bands, or closer to the forward or the rear barrel band?

[Tony Beck]

The end of the filler closest to the lock should be 11 7/8" up from the back edge of the bottom band, more or less.

[Hammer]

I appreciate the reply, Tony. I only have owned one Trapdoor and it’s a 1889 made M1884 that was used in the Spanish American war. I’m still learning about the earlier model trapdoors and I have Dick Hosmer‘s book that covers the model 1866 and 1868 coming in a couple days.

So the filled spring pin hole would be between the lock and the rear or lower barrel band?

[Tony Beck]

The pin hole between the lock and lower band is for the musket ramrod retainer spoon. If the stock was converted from an M-1864 musket stock there should also be a hole on the left side of the forestock between the bands. That is for the middle band spring that's no longer there. Springfield conversions that were made with leftover stocks used M-1863 stocks, which had clamping bands, so no band springs and no filled spring inletting.

[Hammer]

Thank you. When I get back home, I’ll get some pictures posted of the M1866 I just purchased. It doesn’t have a filled spring pin hole on the left side of the stock between the two barrel bands and It’s not like the ones that are described as the Bannerman cut down versions. Just curious what type of 1866 I have.
It has multiple cartouches stamped on the left flat portion of the stock and It has a 4 stamped on top of the buttplate behind the US. Just wondering if this is one of the ones that went to the Franco Prussian war.

I also picked up a M1868 that has a nice Bayonet and scabbard with it. These two trapdoors came from the estate of a trapdoor collector from many years back.

[Tony Beck]

Here are a couple pictures that might help. I don't have a rifle with a filled spring slot, but these pictures show an M1864 musket above an M-1866 short rifle so you can see where the musket middle band spring was before it was filled. I pulled the middle band back to better show the spring end.