Trapdoor Rifles

While the black powder is almost certainly viable, the primers are the concern. First, they may or may not fire. The bad news being that if they do fire, the priming compounds of the day usually included mercury (fulminate of mercury) which is very nasty stuff and will attack and rust iron or steel.

There are two separate concerns about early primers. "Corrosive" primers began to be replaced by non-corrosive types in the late 1920s, although most U.S. military ammo had corrosive primers until 1951-52.
However, mercury was used in many primers until the early 1900s, and some formulations of non-corrosive primers still included mercury, hence the frequent mention of "non-mercuric and non-corrosive".

John S. wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 2:48 am . . . . . . The bad news being that if they do fire, the priming compounds of the day usually included mercury (fulminate of mercury) which is very nasty stuff and will attack and rust iron or steel. . . . . .

In addition to that, the mercury amalgamates with, or penetrates, the brass cases to make them unuseable!

Texcl2 wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2024 11:10 pm Yup, once you collect the brass you are set. The Lee .50/70 government bullet is actually really accurate in my rifles. Put you name on the starline brass back order list on sites like midway. It’ll get put in production eventually.

I got lucky with a fellow on another site whom saw my pics of my recent sharps 50/70 and he let me have his 100 new starline cases for $215 delivered. Great deal , great fellow !!!. When I was a kid hitting up flea markets in NJ i came across all manner of old ammo...primers even in little wood trays. I had so much I started collecting ammo to an extent. I cant even recall all the exotic stuff I had. I at first thought those internal primed 50/70's were rimfire...until an old fellow explained to me how they were really primed. I had a small tine with about a dozen 58 rimfire cartridges in it. I even found several long range 30 caliber krag like rounds for machine guns. They were identical to 30 / 40 krag - just longer case body length . As my collecting interests went more to military rifles and related gear and I reloaded I kinda lost the bug for collecting old ammo. I befriended a younger collector starting into the hobby and gave him all that old exotic stuff. Hope he kept it...that was almost 40 years ago !.

What more can you tell us about the long-cased Krag ammo? Have NEVER heard of that before in over 65 years of collecting (I started with ammo as a kid, long before I could buy guns) .

You are not confusing it with the 2.4" case stuff for the .45-80 long-range trapdoors by any chance, are you?

Dick Hosmer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:14 pm What more can you tell us about the long-cased Krag ammo? Have NEVER heard of that before in over 65 years of collecting . . . . .

I’m with Dick on this point . . . .
I’ve been in this hobby since 1956 . . . .collected military rifles since 1962, including Krag . . . .and never heard of any “long bodied” Krag ammo.

Please expound on what you know.

Or maybe .30-'03 vs. 30-'06? I DO seem to recall hearing of a Gatling in the earlier round, which would account for the "machine gun" reference.

Definitive answer should be in Hackley, Woodin & Scranton, History of Modern U.S. Military Small Arms Ammunition Volume 1 1880-1940

IIRC, there were some special made Krag sub caliber cartridge which had standard case profile, but used a heavier primer since they were struck by the artillery piece firing pin, and the bullet was not the standard Krag 220 grain round nose, but some sort of pointed bullet (172 grain?).

Didn't look this time but in prior perusing of HWS, do NOT recall different case lengths. There was a .22 cal experiment which went nowhere.

The service Krag round is, of course, simply a formalization/standardization of the .30 cartridge tested in the trapdoor.

Dick Hosmer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:14 pm What more can you tell us about the long-cased Krag ammo? Have NEVER heard of that before in over 65 years of collecting (I started with ammo as a kid, long before I could buy guns) .

You are not confusing it with the 2.4" case stuff for the .45-80 long-range trapdoors by any chance, are you?

I had about half a dozen loaded rounds ..all headstamped FA 17 . they looked at a glance like 30/40 krag...except longer body length , not neck length. A couple older fellows told me they were for "long range naval machine guns form a bygone era. There were also two dummy rounds Identical in every way but they had no primer or primer flash hole. but had crimped krag bullet. Sea Girt NJ was a testing range before and during WW1. My grandfather was inducted at camp Hancock NJ ( sandy hook ) and was at sea girt too before he went to france in 1918. It was still a national guard state run facility when I left the nasty place in the early 90's. We used to find all kinds of bullets in the dunes there. Anyhow at the time it was what I was told that was what those cartridges were. Kinda put 2+2 and it made sense to me then. Still does now.

Thanks fopr the added info. Now, I'm going to HAVE to dig out my HWS! The 1917 date rules out any sort of "normal" Krag/03/06 ammo - gotta be something really weird.